How much 'youngtimer'/fun can you have for €300? Review!

"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
10/10/2016 at 12:23 • Filed to: peugeot 205

A lot! Depending how you look at it. Last Thursday I bought yet another Peugeot 205. This time a base model 1986 with old 1970s mechanicals which were phased out in 1987. Measuring smiles/€ it’s been worth it already! Let me elaborate:

(repost for the weekday crowd)

My 1986 Peugeot 205 started life in 1986 with a 1.1L version of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . A joint venture between Peugeot/Citroëm (PSA) and Renault. It had a 4 speed manual gearbox. The engine had one single barrel carburetor and provided 50 hp. However, the engine developed a knock and was swapped by the previous owner. It got a 1.4L engine of the same X engine family and the 5-speed that was already mated to the donor engine. This 1.4L had twin single barrel carburettors and developed 80 hp. It was the ‘sporty’ engine, slotted directly below the GTi. The previous owner however deemed this too ludicrous, so he replaced the twin carburetors by the old single one from the 1.1L. So he could save fuel. Result; probably 60 hp. Note that the ‘dry’ (excluding fluids and driver) weight of this car is 749 kg (1650 lbs).

For those interested in the X engine: it was introduced in 1972 and it’s tilted at 72 degrees. The gearbox is underneath the engine, the drive shafts are equal lenght and the gearbox is driven by transfer gears. It makes a rather distinctive noise.

Anyway, back to the actual car. I bought it from a family who’d used it for their kids during their college days. It went from the oldest to the youngest, but they’ve since outgrown it. The son clearly liked the car though, enthusiastically telling me about adjusting the carburetor and fixing the shift rod with an inner tube of a bicycle tire, on the side of the road. More on that later. Their enthusiasm about the car made me almost buy the car. Yet I didn’t initially. Too much rust (optical, not structural) for my goal of breathing new life into a classic. So I walked away.

Yet, after 3 weeks they contacted me again and made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. €300, and I could have it. Because I’m an ‘enthusiast’. I just couldn’t say no. €300 is pocket change for any car.

How does it look?

Good from far, far from good. The paint is beyond flat and there are many little rust spots. This rust won’t (structurally) kill the car, but it’s ugly and eliminates whatever economical value would be in the car as a ‘classic’.

It’s got many spots like this one.

The one spot where the rust is at least somewhat troublesome structurally.

Note the tape on the plastic trim, preventing it from falling off.

How does it drive?

This is where it shines. It’s hilarious. The engine is eager and the drivetrain provides a typical whine. Pedal response is instant. Manual choke is new to me, but let’s say it adds character. The chassis is great, yet the tires are like bicycle tires. 145 /80/13! No power steering, but you don’t ever miss it due to the lack of weight and the narrow tires.

You can drive it fast, but there’s no grip! It’s also sprung rather soft. It really is a riot. This is the car for slow car fast. It’s eager, direct and communicative, yet the limits are very low. Also, the 60 (?) hp it has is more than enough the comfortably get along with traffic. It will also do 75 mph all day long, if needed. I still win stop light sprints against most people. Not that those people notice I’m doing my best, but that’s not the point.

Yes, 145 mm wide tires on 13 inch steelies with hubcaps.

!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!

How would I know?

Is it practical?

Yes. We’ve sat in it with 3 guys, with me being the shortest and lightest. I’m 188 cm and 80 kg (6'2" and 176 lbs in legacy units). Will fit comfortably. Not 10 hour road trip comfortably, but comfortably. Also note that this car is marginally narrower and shorter than a 2016 Mitsubishi Mirage. It’s also extremely easy to park; It’s got a massive greenhouse, you can see the hood and you can see where the trunk ends.

You fold the bottom of the bench up, then fold the back section flat.

Toys? Does it have any?

Well yes. It’s got a, well, it’s got seatbelts in the back! And an aftermarket CD-player!

Let’s compare it with my 1988 Peugeot 205 GTi 1.6. That’s a fair comparison, right? The following list is what the 1988 205 GTi has but which the base model 1986 205 does not have :

Clock

Rev counter

Roof mounted handles to brace yourself in a corner

Intermittent wipers

Mirrors adjustable from the inside (manual). Just open the windows in the 1986.

Oil pressure gage, oil temperature gage, water temperature gage

Specific indicator courtousy lights. Just one in the 1986.

Rear wiper (black plastic blanks on a white car. Classy)

Partially foldable back seat (rather than complete or bust)

Power windows

Power locks

Reading lights

Glove box (rather than a glove... tray?)

Door bins

Fuel injection

Leather steering wheel

And probably a lot more. So it’s simple. Nothing to break, right? I also didn’t notice a cigarette lighter, but that can’t be correct. It’s a French car from the mid 1980s. I did notice at least one ash tray.

How is it mechanically?

Not bad actually. It will need some regular maintenance, but that’s to be expected. It’s certainly sweating oil, but it’s 30 years old. There’s a CV boot that will need to be replaced (inspection due: November 1!).

That boot will need to go. Look how dirty it’s made things. The rubber/plastic is crumbling.

The other side, for comparison.

There’s also a gearshift issue. Or, to be more precise, two issues with the shift linkage. One is that the shift rod on the transmission side is worn. As a non-native English speaker my description of these joints is that they consist of a ball and a bowl. The shift rod has bowls on both sides. On the transmission side it’s utterly worn, there’s zero grip on the ball. So the previous owner came up with an ingenious solution to keep them together.

An added issue was that this car shifted horribly. Like stirring in a pot of soup, but worse. It was an easy fix though. There was a lot of play on a bolt in the shift linkage. If you moved the shifter the amount of play meant that the first part of your movement had zero effect on the gearbox. I tightened the bolt, and it shifted great again.

1. Ball. 2. Bowl. 3. The bolt I tightened. 4. Secret hamster.

Shift rod, shifter side.

The previous owner tied the shift rod to that other rod with a part of a bicycle inner tube. This way the ball will stay in the bowl. Very ingenious.

While the ingenious solution by the previous owner worked, I’d like to fix it properly. The car came with a spare shift rod. However, in my inexperience I was unable to detach the not-worn side of the shift rod. Raw power wasn’t enough. Any tips?

I couldn’t get this loose. Yes, there’s WD40 in there. This connects directly to the shifter.

!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!

Fix the issues, become a better (less horrible) mechanic, have some fun, resell.

I’ll add some extra pictures.

199k km. That’s 6.66 k km a year. A bad omen! Or is it?

Base model car. Glove box lid was optional. As were the door bins. I don’t believe it originally came without speaker covers though.

Fancy HVAC system! Well, HV.

Original steering wheel. The previous owner replaced it with the slight sportier less thin one it’s got now. Probably will swap this back in.

I opened up the door to press a dent out. I was only partially successfully. Who can guess what kind of car is in the background? Note the mirror and the wiper.

Underside.

Engine. Not my picture, but my car none the less. Note the rocker cover (72 degrees! ha!) and the 1.1 on the air filter housing changed to 1.4 with pen.

Carb from the side. Still magic to me. This will change.

Stalked by my daily driver.

Spare keys? No! 1 key for the front doors, 1 for the ignition, 1 for the hatch, 1 for the fuel door. 4 different keys, 1 car.

Opinions? What would you do with this car?

Tell me!

DISCUSSION (34)

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > duurtlang
10/08/2016 at 19:28

Swap back in dual carbs.

duurtlang > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
10/08/2016 at 19:47

That’s something I am considering. First I have to understand how these carbs work though. Still, if I’m not mistaken it’s 33% power increase!

Jonee > duurtlang
10/08/2016 at 19:48

Awesome. It reminds me of my Le Car. I wish we had gotten the 205 on this side of the ocean. Clean it up and enjoy it. It’s a nice companion for the GTi, and I always find something special about a well loved econobox.

Flavien Vidal > duurtlang
10/08/2016 at 21:54

Very nice man!

I always loved 205s! One of the most enjoyable car you can buy for next to nothing. Well bought!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > duurtlang
10/08/2016 at 22:18

Love it!!! I have a thing for basic, simple, fun European rides (especially as I am Canadian, so our car culture is closer to the American ‘big, brash’ philosophy), so this fits the bill.....that dashboard is just so elegant in a ‘clean, simple and legible’ way - all you need, nothing you don’t. The headliner and interior being worn issue shouldn’t be too hard to sort - even swapping in some later seats wouldn’t be too hard to do I would think, and everything may even clean up fairly well.

The rust doesn’t look to bad - get that sorted out and it will be a great little car. :)

Definitely swap on the dual carbs again - duals are a bit harder to maintain, but a 33% power increase from that change alone would be a pleasant boost! :)

You’re almost following the path I want to take - I’ve got almost NO mechanical experience at all, but I know a lot of the theory. I’m hoping when I finally get to import my FIAT 126 that I can also use it as a fun learning tool. It’s another simple, basic car (also carbed and with a manual choke!), so it should be good to learn on - I already have service and user manuals for them in digital form, plus lots of OTHER info, and tips and tricks from Borsuq here on Oppo who already owns one.

Not sure if they gave you one or you have one already (assuming you do), but I’ve got a digital copy of the Haynes Service Manual for the 205 if you would need it?

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 02:40

You make old barely equipped cars sound like fun. Tbh, I’d probably rather take one of the special 205 models like the Roland Garros or 205 Griffe.

duurtlang > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem
10/09/2016 at 02:47

You know I also own an ‘88 GTi and a ‘87 CTi, right? Anyway, I wanted a carbed one. Preferably 1987 or older. Also: cheap. There aren’t that many left, they were treated as rather disposable. So I couldn’t be too picky.

duurtlang > Flavien Vidal
10/09/2016 at 05:14

I own three 205s now. Very different ones (bone stock ‘88 GTi, 2.0 turbo swapped ‘87 CTi). All are glorious in different ways.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 07:03

We should still do a comparable test/review sometime with the Celica and one of the 205's!

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder
10/09/2016 at 07:17

Hey Pabuuu, have you already seen the roll call for the Europpomeet? http://oppositelock.kinja.com/europpomeet-2017-roll-call-1786660317

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 07:25

Are you aiming to own 205 versions of the 205? Or just one from every year?

Those base 205s are becoming quite rare, I haven’t seen one in a while. A family I know had one for the past 20-ish years, but they recently junked it because it became a bit too old and tired, I’m guessing most 205s faced/are facing a similar faith.

Are you going to convert it back to the dual carbs? I think that would make it quite a bit faster than one would expect by its looks.

duurtlang > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder
10/09/2016 at 07:36

We should’ve done that when we were at the Louwman museum! Why didn’t we? I don’t really travel to your part of the country that often, and when I do I don’t tend to do so in one of my 205s. Not a bad idea though.

Kinja'd!!!

duurtlang > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
10/09/2016 at 08:11

The headliner really is an issue. The interior itself isn’t, only the underside of the bench, but you only see that when you fold the rear seat, so who cares?

One of the upsides of these 205s is that they litterally made millions. And many of the later ones are still on the road. Parts are easy to come by new, even the normal maintenance parts for the ancient engine. Most junkyards have a 90s 205 (which doesn’t share my interior, dash or drivetrain). There’s a place with 100+ junk 205s about an hour from me, so even interior parts are easy enough to come by.

I have the same Haynes PDF :)

duurtlang > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer
10/09/2016 at 10:53

These cars have been sub-€1k for so many years that whenever something big breaks they are junked. Mine would’ve been junked as well due to the original 1.1L engine, which was on the brink of death. At this point cars like this only live on if someone who’s mechanically inclined owns it or if the owner ‘knows a guy’. Not because the cars are bad in any way, but because you can get something more modern for the cost of a more thorough repair.

Dual carbs only becomes an option once I’m familiar with how carbs work. This one works as it is. Installing a new one, a dual one even, requires a level of tinkering I’m way too novice for.

Happy Panda > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 11:38

I know you lived in my home town, but the street picture is taken literally 100m from my parental house. You’re not the guy who owned that Daihatsu Midget II, which was often parked on that street, right?

duurtlang > Happy Panda
10/09/2016 at 11:41

HAHAHAHA

No. That’s an old dude in his 70s (I’d guess) with a grey beard. It’s still parked here. I actually cracked the bumper of my 406 coupe on the bed of that thing as it’s so low (the only thing I’ve ever crashed into). Small world.

Do your parents still live here?

Happy Panda > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 11:44

My parents are gone, but my brother lives in the family home, go in one street parallel and look for the “purple grey” Citroen C2 with orange interior, that’s my brother’s car.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 12:11

Awesome! Looking forward to more updates on it! :)

duurtlang > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
10/09/2016 at 12:14

Updates? Just fly here (€500?), buy it from me for a break even price and drive around Europe for a week or two, put a Fiat 126 in the trunk and ship it to Canada!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 12:18

...*narrows eyes*...you may just be on to something! :P

duurtlang > Happy Panda
10/09/2016 at 12:57

He’s back on Neptune apparently:

Kinja'd!!!

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 15:10

Yep and I like both of them. Too bad the scrappage scheme killed many good old fashioned econoboxes like your €300 205. Probably couldn’t live without a clock or other very basic features in a car though.

duurtlang > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem
10/09/2016 at 15:43

They’re easy to install. Well, some of them certainly are. Clock, glovebox lid, those roof mounted handles to brace yourself with and door bins are on my list. Excluding the clock they bolt right in. The clock will need power, but that can’t be too hard to install.

It does surprise me how few French cars you see in Germany. Especially older ones. I tend to be able to find more in tiny the Netherlands than in the whole of Germany. It’s as if Germans strongly favor German cars. This dual carbed 1987 205 XS in Herford Germany was a letdown though. Much cleaner than my white ‘86, but the engine ran horribly.

Jobjoris > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 15:55

There I was thinking Bread Box Week was over...

Awesome buy. What to do with it? Let’s see how far it goes without any maintenance/oil whatsoever. God I love these. How’s the GTI doin’?

duurtlang > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
10/09/2016 at 16:18

Can take my Haynes manual statement back? The part about the CV boots isn’t in mine, and I want to replace mine. Does yours have it? Chapter 8.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 16:23

Sounds easy but with my two left hands I’d probably mess those simple add ons up haha.

Some cars have kinda gone extinct, particularly non-German cars. There’s only 1 (one) 205 on my local mobile.de and it’s the model I really like, a Roland Garros.

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=231589118

duurtlang > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem
10/09/2016 at 16:25

Looking clean! Do note that nice 205s will appreciate. The GTis and CTis certainly are.

And even with two left hands you can use a screw driver.

duurtlang > Jobjoris
10/09/2016 at 16:55

Hey now, I want to save it, not kill it. How many base model 1986 205s are left? This has the Peugeot 104 drivetrain still!

The GTi is doing great. Haven driven it much. It has taken it upon itself to rustproof the underside though. I will have to replace the rocker cover/valve cover gasket. And a ring from the distributor.

Jobjoris > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 17:14

Well, I’m all up for that. But for saving it... Better start working on that body! Peugeot really had a winning number here.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 17:49

Uno momento sir!

*checks*Damn, mine is missing as well - goes from Chap. 5 or so to Chap. 9 :/

Must’ve got ours from the same place! Sorry mate!

Seeing what I can find for you though with my Google-fu.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > duurtlang
10/09/2016 at 18:08

Nope, not having any luck so far, very sorry! :(

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > duurtlang
10/10/2016 at 03:58

Stop getting 205's, I want my CTI back!
Nice find hough

Happy Panda > duurtlang
10/11/2016 at 11:50

Yup, that’s the one. :-)

duurtlang > Happy Panda
10/11/2016 at 16:16

Like I said, it’s a very small world :)